On Google Chrome, V8 engine, and Webkit vs. Gecko
So, Chris, Tom, and I were talking about this post at Blogoscoped. Aside from the fact that IMO the entire thing smells more than a little hinkey (a paper comic shows up in this guy’s physical mail box, but no where else?), we were studying information contained within the comic. By the way, I’m not saying it’s all fake, but something’s not right; maybe I’ll talk more about that later.
Writing a Javascript engine is hard. Writing a brand new one from the ground up is going to take very smart people. The only names we found for the V8 Javascript VM team were Lars Bak and Kasper Lund. We were able to find some info about these guys. Kasper has a Linked In profile, and a very interesting master’s thesis. His thesis even mentions work by Lars Bak, the co-founder of OOVM, speaker at this year’s JAOO Conference. Lars’s profile doesn’t reflect his Google employment status, but that conference page shows us that is indeed an employee of Google, and a preview of Kasper’s Linked Profile shows us he is too.
So we can confirm that the only people explicitly identified as the V8 team are both very smart, and Google employees. I find it credible to think these guys led a team to create a new JS VM. How well it’s going to run right now is another matter.
As for their use of Webkit versus Gecko, while I find their reason for using webkit (small footprint, easy embedding, easy learning curve for the codebase) to be entirely believable, I don’t think that was the only factor. I think they chose not to use Gecko also for political reasons. It would become a direct competitor to Mozilla’s Firefox, which whom they just renewed their deal for 3 more years instead of the previous 2 year deals. Chris put it in a way I agree with 100%, that Google would rather fail miserably with a browser and let Firefox become dominant than splinter the Firefox market and allow IE to retain control. By using Webkit, they introduce another OSS browser into the mix to chip away at IE and help put more pressure on web developers to create standards compliant, cross platform code. It’s not great news for Web Devs who now will have yet ANOTHER browser to work with (yes it’s Webkit, but a new JS engine, so you can’t just check against Safari or Konqueror and be done with it), but it’s good news for users, and Google, who wants to keep Microsoft from choking the web as they have the desktop.
We have no idea when Google Chrome will be released, nor even when it will officially be announced. A dead-tree comic in a blogger’s mail box is a funny way to announce things. Did Blogoscoped ignore an embargo? Did someone at Google send this out ahead of time? Why does Blogoscoped say that the comic is CC licenced? Why don’t we get a scan of the cover, or authorship information? We can only take his word for it on who created the comic, although some of the facts seem to line up. why don’t we get a scan of the envelope, or anything to help confirm this source? No answers to these questions yet, but we’re still looking.
Update: Google’s official announcement. Also, an apology to Blogoscoped. While I was right that something was hinkey, it turns out that it was Google, not Blogoscoped. The one possibility I didn’t think about seriously was that someone at Google simply screwed up and sent it out early. Occam’s Razor had cut me again. 
Tom had this to say,
September 1, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
My main concern about the scans was that they look way too good to be scans. I mean, it’s possible, but impeccable work there.
Paul Irish had this to say,
September 1, 2008 @ 5:50 pm
It’ll be released tomrorow. and for windows only: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/fresh-take-on-browser.html
Mr eel had this to say,
September 1, 2008 @ 7:43 pm
“I think they chose not to use Gecko also for political reasons. It would become a direct competitor to Mozilla’s Firefox…”
This actually makes no sense. You’re not talking about browsers, you’re talking about rendering-engines. Needless to say, end-users don’t care about what engine a browser uses. Gecko or Webkit based, it’s still a different browser and still a Firefox competitor from their point of view.
If I was guessing, I’d say the technical considerations were the sole reason for choosing Webkit.
“Chris put it in a way I agree with 100%, that Google would rather fail miserably with a browser and let Firefox become dominant than splinter the Firefox market and allow IE to retain control.”
I honestly don’t know what the Firefox Market is. I mean… it’s the browser market right? Personally I think more competitors to IE is a good thing.
Tom had this to say,
September 1, 2008 @ 8:44 pm
No mention of plugins or userscript support. Sounds bad.
nf had this to say,
September 1, 2008 @ 9:39 pm
Have you looked at the Gecko and WebKit code bases? I can see why they chose WebKit. It is a beautiful piece of work. Gecko, not so much.
anon had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 12:27 am
Its understandable since Webkit only does html rendering and JS. Gecko has twice as many components and functions. Gecko won’t be as clean until Moz2/Firefox 4.
Tom had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 12:29 am
Gecko also does XUL, which is the chrome of the Firefox browser (another reason Google Chrome is a bad name, chrome is a tech term).
roccos modernes leben » Google bastelt eigenen Browser had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 3:27 am
[...] mehr Infos: klick Geschrieben am 2. September 2008 um 09:07. Kategorien: modernes [...]
Tom Robinson had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 4:51 am
Most JavaScript engines in browsers these days are pretty much consistent, it’s the DOM that’s the problem. I imagine it will be functionally identical to WebKit.
Hopefully you’ll be able to test against either Chrome or Safari and be done with it.
Google Chrome Screenshots - Search - iBlog had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 5:04 am
[...] auch noch ein paar Infos zu V8, der Javascript Engine in Google Chrome .gallery { margin: auto; } .gallery-item { float: left; [...]
hep-cat.de » Google Chrome Beta had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 6:43 am
[...] Mittlerweile sind auf einem Blog die ersten Screenshots aufgetaucht und auch im “Offiziellen Google Blog” ist ein Eintrag diesbezüglich zu finden. Weitere Informationen: heise.de golem.de mbilf.com [...]
Christoph Tornau had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 7:11 am
Looks like a great piece of work. Let’s have a look how it works. It’s generally a good idea to implement a browser like an operating system. So more and more it’s possible to have a web application like a normal application.
Hope Google will manage to speed up the things like they promise. I’m also looking forward to new web standards for the Web 2.0 application support, so that the Web 2.0 even gets better and better.
Let’s see how Microsoft and the Mozilla Foundation will react. Firefox has a quite old code base from Netscape. I believe that they will challenge Google and Microsoft will also challenge Google to have the best browser. Looks like a lot of changes on the Internet
CableGuy had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 7:39 am
So Webkit wins one more time.
zahlenzerkleinerer » Blog Archive » Super Idee Google had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 7:53 am
[...] neu geschriebenen Java Script Engine die vom V8-Teams entwickelt wurde, näheres findet man hier. Interessant an der Engine ist der Just in Time Compiler: Da die Geschwindigkeit von [...]
HyperPac´s site » Blog Archive » Google develops a browser - Google Chrome had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 9:59 am
[...] http://mbilf.com/2008/09/on-google-chrome/ [...]
Gordon Brown had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 10:06 am
WOW!!! After Opera going BLOAT and Mozilla with 3 still not able to handle very basic things, chrome hopefully will be the much needed break through for new internet technologies. I am so happy to kick new bloat opera, though still my fav, and mozilla, which has a software design from past century. GREAT NEWS!!! Gogogo! (No, sorry, I do not have Apple – I am not willing to pay always too much for hardware.)
BlogSchafftWissen - WissenSchaftsBlog » Google Chrome steht in den Startlöchern » Browser, Firefox, Google, Google Chrome, Webkit had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 10:16 am
[...] sowie von Mozillas Firefox. Das bei allen Google-Diensten allgegenwärtige JavaScript wird über V8, einer eigens in Dänemark entwickelten Engine bedient, wohl eines der ersten Produkte des [...]
whiteline had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 10:33 am
Does the word “deliberate leak” ring any bells concerning that comic?
I have long stopped believing in “oops, we screwed up” statements when it comes to Google and Marketing.
Ingmar Greil had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Actually the comic does mention plugins, in quite some depth, really.
Tom had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
@Ingmar Greil:
Plugins, like Flash or Shockwave. Not Extensions, like Greasemonkey or (GASP! Google would never allow this!) Adblock.
Steffen had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 12:27 pm
@Tom
Remember: “Chrome” will be open source. Google will not be able to prevent any add blocking extension. At least there will be a “Chrome” derivative to implant this feature.
Tom had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
@Steffen
Webkit is open source too, and I recalled Swift as being the first Webkit browser for windows:
http://my.opera.com/lugansk/blog/show.dml/746081
It was crashy and barely worked. It was indeed not easy to port Webkit to Windows. I don’t think it will be so easy to fork Google Code, especially to implement the ability to have extensions that will modify the DOM! Even Safari doesn’t have extensions, the modifications like Saft or PithHelmet require SIMBL, which is basically a hack to ‘patch’ binaries. The code used to build webkit nightlies hasn’t been forked into a project that supports extensions officially, not even Shiira (the only other webkit browser forked off Safari that I can think of) supports DOM-modifying extensions.
I’m not saying it won’t happen, because that’s silly. Look at Flock, for example. However, look at Flock, for example
Tom had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 12:48 pm
I wanted to point out Aza Raskin has blogged about Google Chrome:
http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/firefox-google-chrome-new-tabs/
Erdkunde mit Google Chrome at Sinn City Blog had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
[...] schrieb ich über den Comic, der Google’s neuen Browser vorstellen soll. Das V8-Team, welches Teile des Browsers programmiert hat, sitzt in Dänemark, wie dieser Ausschnitt zeigen [...]
Philipp Lenssen had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
> While I was right that something was
> hinkey, it turns out that it was Google, not Blogoscoped.
It took us by a whole lot of surprise too…
dejan had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 3:44 pm
It’s already released for XP/Vista:
http://www.google.com/chrome
Using it now, and looks great
selopr2 had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 5:23 pm
chrome fails when i try to scroll up with the scroll wheel
links for 2008-09-02 « 個人的な雑記 had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
[...] On Google Chrome, V8 engine, and Webkit vs. Gecko (tags: javascript browser google mozilla Firefox V8 engine) [...]
Grey had this to say,
September 2, 2008 @ 6:56 pm
@Phillip: Thanks for being understanding of our skepticism. At least I fessed up that my suspicion was misplaced.
Writing your own JavaScript Engine - CrazyEngineers Forum had this to say,
October 26, 2008 @ 12:33 am
[...] Writing your own JavaScript Engine CEans, I stumbled upon following posts – On Google Chrome, V8 engine, and Webkit vs. Gecko Master’s Thesis Now, writing your own JavaScript engine is no child’s play. But a curious [...]
Joshua Issac had this to say,
October 31, 2008 @ 9:08 am
@Gordon Brown impersonator:You call Opera bloated, although it is a smaller download than Firefox, starts up faster, loads pager faster?
For an Adbock alternative, add this to the Google Chrome bookmarks:
javascript:(function(){function R(w){try{var d=w.document,j,i,t,T,N,b,r=1,C;for(j=0;t=["object","embed","applet","iframe"][j];++j){T=d.getElementsByTagName(t);for(i=T.length-1;(i+1)&&(N=T[i]);–i)if(j!=3||!R((C=N.contentWindow)?C:N.contentDocument.defaultView)){b=d.createElement(“div”);b.style.width=N.width; b.style.height=N.height;b.innerHTML=”
“+(j==3?”third-party “+t:t)+”“;N.parentNode.replaceChild(b,N);}}}catch(E){r=0}return r}R(self);var i,x;for(i=0;x=frames[i];++i)R(x)})()And click it to get rid of ads.
Joshua Issac had this to say,
October 31, 2008 @ 9:10 am
Replace the smart quotation marks with normal ones, and put and at the start and end of the strikethrough to make the above code usable.